Again with the WCS

I'd like to point out that it isn't me this time. Kirith started up with the WCS talk and now gamerchick has posted a new write-up about it.

Even I am getting tired of this.

Let's go thru this step by step and I'll use numbers and make it bold, so it is easy to follow along:

1. Rixx doesn't care about WCS. Use them or don't use them, he doesn't care.

2. As a blogger I created the "Anti-WCS" campaign to shame those that choose to use them in Low Sec combat situations. And have fun at their expense. Cause they are funny. I'm going to keep doing that.

3. I never considered an actual "ban" of WCS as a module. I do believe they should only be used on transports and industrial non-combat ships, but that's me.

4. I love Faction Warfare and want it to be a great place for people to play Eve.

5. No one "needs" WCS. Like all of us, being aligned and using d-scan is the key to avoiding combat you don't want. Learn it. Live it. Use it.


So I hope that clears things up. I know it won't. But that is no reason for me to stop trying. Sanity and intelligence are my only defense against the horde. People tend to put you in a box and stop listening to what you are actually saying. I understand this, but it doesn't mean I won't keep trying.

And I have another piece of news I'll share, which I've also said before. Those CCP'ers I spoke to at Fanfest happen to agree with me. FW is currently not optimal and is in need of some adjustments. This will happen eventually, although probably not until after Null Sov is dealt with. Entosis links, Battlecruiser sized plex, and other changes are probably coming our way. Many of these changes will indeed affect FW, Pirates, and all of Low Sec. Including those people that use WCS on their combat ships. Masterplan and I specifically had a nice long intelligent chat about the module itself and changes that could easily be made to make it work more better. And not once during any of these conversations did I ask for them to be banned. Not once. Fozzie even made a joke about that.

Why? Because I don't want them to be banned. Duh.

Don't get me wrong, Eve would be so much better if they just disappeared. Poof, gonzo! Woot! But let's be realistic and admit that isn't going to happen, nor did I ever think it was. Although it should. Seriously. (This is a great example of my Pirate and my Blogger having a conversation.)

The inane will continue to accuse me of trying to "force" them to play Eve the way I want them to play. This is the furthest thing from the actual truth. Please feel free to play the way you want, I can't force you to do anything. Nor would I want to. However you feel, you must also face the facts. Eve is a game. A game with rules. Rules that we must all follow. The only people who can force you to play and follow those rules is CCP. No matter how many drums I beat, I'lll never have that kind of power. Sorry. I wish it was different. (Not really)

The funny thing is, Kirith and Susan and everyone else I've talked to about this - actually agree. I can't begin to tell you how many conversations at Fanfest ended the same way, with agreement. So many people started with the assumption that I wanted to ban WCS and by the end realized that we really all agree on the basic tenets of the argument. How about that?

Things are broken. Things need fixed. See how easy that was?



38 comments:

  1. "But let's be realistic and admit that isn't going to happen, nor did I ever think it was. Although it should" is that your opinion on them? Or is it "Because I don't want them to be banned." It sounds like you want both.

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    1. My only frustration comes from a game-play perspective. There should be no need to fit WCS on combat ships. If people want to avoid combat then they can stay aligned, use d-scan, safe spots, scouts, all the things the rest of us have to do. The mechanic is double-minded and allows players to have it both ways, which is why it is broken and needs fixed.

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    2. Didn't you also say that the last post would be the last word too?...

      Maybe what you say cannot be trusted :P

      Rob K.

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    3. I always reserve the right to respond when needed, I'm not going to just sit and let others twist my words without saying something. That has never been my style and I've always been truthful about that.

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    4. As for a proper reply, (because teasing you, whilst fun, isn't productive), my question is this: given your status as a 'true solo' pvper, why do you lose that status when you start moving your ships around and not fighting? Is living in low-sec only for large groups like your own?

      Similarly, please address the 'double-mindedness' of Warp core stabilises in a vacuum, and ignore their impacts on other parts of the game. I think you'll find your problems recede markedly.

      And finally, as for the 'everyone else agrees with me', dare I suggest that you're operating in an echo chamber? Talk to the Russian farmers too, if you can. They'll, unlike the pirate crowd, have an actual dissenting opinion.

      Rob K.

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    5. I don't lose my status for any reason. So I have no idea what you are talking about. We might be a large group but we are mostly individuals who fly primarily solo or in small gangs, so our size has nothing to do with anything. Other than how awesome we are.

      I don't have any problems.

      And I can't speak Russian. All those guys do is yell at me in local when I explode their ships.

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    6. " scouts, all the things the rest of us have to do." Who are these scouts that are scouting for you then? They're not yours? Where do they come from? :P

      As for 'double-mindedness'. I honestly don't understand your opinion. Maybe a post to describe it more fully? Unless I missed it in the original post, in which case, please point it out to me :)

      Rob K.

      P.S, this is beginning to feel like your most commented post ever, do you have a Hall of Fame?

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    7. There were over 100 comments originally on the posts surrounding my leaving my last corporation, so we have a ways to go yet. This post has a WCS tag on the bottom of it, clicking that will bring up all the past posts regarding this subject.

      And btw, I don't use Scouts when I'm solo. That wouldn't be solo then would it?

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    8. Ah, wow! 100 comments is huge. I didn't realise that any post by any blogger had that many.

      And hmm, I figured you were solo all the time, despite me knowing that that was not true. I would be interested in how you move much larger ships into the warzone, and whether you decide that there are such things as acceptable losses.

      Rob K.

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    9. We live next to HS and I have a Freighter alt. I also have Carriers, and the Corp has Jump Freighters, and all the infrastructure needed to move large quantities if need be. We also have WH Corps that can often save us a lot of time.

      Acceptable losses are an individual pilots decision, not a Corporate one. We do not dictate to anyone in our Alliance what acceptable risk is or isn't. We leave that to each person to decide on their own. And support their efforts to recoup their losses by building an Alliance in which they have the necessary support to do so.

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    10. Re: number of comments.

      http://jestertrek.blogspot.com.au/2014/05/no-tank-lasts-forever.html

      This is an outlier but Jester was also a contentious blogger, who regularly got 100+ responses.

      Sadly he's no longer writing.

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  2. Okay after reading this post I think I understand you now. In short, you hate WCS and you think that there is no place in Eve for them - you think they should be banned or discontinued. Does that just about sum up your thoughts? Hold your fire Rixx, I'm just poking you in the ribs. Love your posts...

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  3. I only time I fit WCS on combat ships are these: 1) when making a run down through nullsec I'll fit WCS on a frig with no combat modules I just need to get someplace, and 2) when my alt can fly a specific hull but not fit the modules but i'm using him to deliver my ships to Nenn. That's about it...

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    1. When I was in Null and we needed our ship to be somewhere for an op I'd often fit WCS on it for the trip over.

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  4. I know even combat ships need to travel so I disagree that WCS have zero place for them. Not everyone has scout s available anytime and there is no way to scan the other side of a gate. WCS are used to avoid combat they have severe penalties because of this. So I don't understand people are so against them. People equipping them are not likely looking for combat so why should they not have aga means of accomplishing that play style. There are ships that don't show on Dscan that can warp cloaked this module is one of the few items that gives a chance, not a guarantee, to avoid a PvP encounter.

    I don't like my targets using them but I understand they don't want to fight. I prefer targets that want to fight. I have never felt much accomplishment ganking, camping, or blowing up players that don't want to PvP. Don't get me wrong I'll kill any target I can. If didn't fit for escape too bad.

    As for FW, that is a special case and there should be restrictions on what can enter plexes. But that requires many things to be balanced WCS only being 1 item on the list.

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    1. But why are you flying a combat ship if you don't intend to fight! Don't you know ships just appear when you want them to, and the magical ship-building faeries make them!!! Avoiding PVP is for doubleplus ungood thinking citizens, who have no place in 'Fight-club low-sec'!!!!! Everything should be a target, and nothing should be exempt!!!!!!! Rixx-Javix, Pirate King, demands that it be so !!!!!!!!!

      *Delsional hysterial mode turned off. Sorry for the exclamation marks.

      The truth is, Rixx has 3 different characters, and keeping them separate is hard to do, especially on a blog. Rixx Javix the person probably gets a little fustrated with stabs, Rixx the pirate hates them. Rixx the blogger has bigger aims . They're all one and the same, and yet not.

      For example: replace aspects of God with the various Rixxes on this chart:

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-compact.svg

      Confused as hell? Me too!

      Rob K.

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    2. I know it can be difficult. But believe it or not Eve is a virtual game full of virtual pixel based characters that we, out here in the real world, play from time to time. So yes, the Rixx inside of Eve is a pirate. The real me out here in the real world is not a Pirate. This blog is a place where multiple viewpoints can co-exist at the same time! Amazing. And wondrous. I can both admit that yes Rixx finds WCS frustrating at times inside of Eve and yet he also doesn't care one iota if people fit them or not. He still manages to explode their ships. And then the real me, out here typing right now, looks a little deeper and says, "Wait a sec! This thing in freakin' broken."

      Follow along please. It really ain't that complicated.

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    3. Oh, I know it isn't. I was just enjoying describing it in a complicated way. I just disagree on the way that the item appears to be broken. Surprisingly, good, right-thinking players can do that :P.

      It wasn't really you I was addressing in the 'keeping them separate' bit, but us commentators. Perhaps none of the rest of us have so many aspects to their character :P

      Rob K

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    4. I support the fact that everyone has an opinion. I also believe that not all opinions carry equal weight, or are informed. But I like people that disagree with me. Not everyone does.

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  5. So the consensus is that players should be there to fight. Then limited amounts of LP from FW should only be validated from an opposing player kill. I am sure there is something clever to prevent it being through alts.

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    1. Eve is a game built around a single conceit called player versus player combat. Anytime you undock, despite what anyone tells you, you have agreed to be a target for someone. You are being hunted. Case closed.

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    2. This statement actually makes my case easier. In a PvP universe, which also has activities not centered on PvP combat, the one module that counters some forms warp disruption is a the warp core stab. This game is a huge sandbox with PvP at the center. WCS are the module you fit when you want to play with greater freedom from player combat.

      Once in a rare moon, someone might even equip one for ease of disengagement, but that is really rare. Since combat exists with non-pvp entities, i.e. PvE, then WCS can be fit for those combat ships looking to escape PvP. Not all combat is against another player.

      Here is my issue with the vocal group against WSC, they all seem to be hunters. Some might have alts that do other things and claim they would give up WSC on them too. But the fact remains Hunters don't want prey to escape.

      And while I love Eve and respect it is a PvP game, Not everyone that plays it is a PvP combat player, nor is everyone that participates in PvP always the hunter.

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  6. What exactly makes a ship a "combat ship"?

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    1. Any ship that leaves the safety of a station could be considered a combat ship. However, I would prefer the definition that includes the addition of combat modules. Which would exclude a Freighter for example, or a mining-fitted Hulk.

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    2. So would an Abaddon fitted with tank and sensory modules (cargo, ship, and survey scanners), but nothing offensive (guns and drones) meet YOUR idea of a non-combat ship?

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    3. Context is what really decides anything. As I said, personally I believe all ships undocking from a station could be considered a combat ship. That is, after all, the nature of Eve. And not something that I made up. If a ship is incapable of engaging in combat then, by its very nature, it is not in and of itself a combat ship.

      However, yesterday a fleet of Procurers and Ventures loaded with nasty drones made short work of my heavily tanked Prophecy - so you tell me.

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  7. Of all this one simple thing: LOL

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  8. "basic tenants"

    tenets


    Gwyd

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  9. People keep saying that by opposing the use of Warpcore Stabs were trying to get people to play OUR way. Like were some eeevil dictator trying to force people to walk a straight line. What they don't realize is that every change and nerf that people have demanded from CCP has done the exact same thing.

    When people dropped titans and blapped shit they got nerfed to make sure that they could no longer play the game that way. When the Null Sec went stagnant because of SuperCap Dominance and bad Sov Mechanics CCP nerfed and changed that, and is still changing it, because it created uninteresting unbalanced gameplay.

    My favorite example of this is that when Incursions were just released there was a problem of particular sites being too easily farmed. CCP nerfed incurions pretty hard because of this, despite the fact that the incursion community had flourished as a result of said mechanics.

    When a mechanic used by players becomes something that is directly detrimental to the health of mechanics of the game or are just plain bad then they deserved to be nerfed.

    Should WCS be banned? No. There intended use, that of being able to move safer, is not at all overpowered. But now only the most hardcore of roleplaying FW players plex with any sort of regularity. Know why that is? Its because plexing with a WCS is the most efficient way to do it. Even with the changes by CCP to make plexing harder only forced WCS-Farmers to either ship up to vexors or restricted to certain types of frigates.

    And despite all the absolute BITCHING about people being 'forced' to PvP, the original intention for FW plexing was for it to be a draw for people to FUCKING PVP. But because the best way to make money is in WCS thats the way people go. And because people are making tons of money from it, not noobs btw, the people going out in WCS aren't noobs that all us 'mean bittervets' simply want to roflstomp all the time, the vast majority of them are alts of established players who use it as an income source.

    And because its an income source people will inevitably jump to its defence. So in a summary of my views.

    1. Are FW Plexing mechanics boring and unfun and need to be changed? Yes!
    2. While we wait for CCP to overhaul plex mechanics again should WCS-Farmers continue to completely control to FW Sov Game? Nope.

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    1. Not having been around when FW was released initially, can you point me to evidence for the 'draw people to pvp' line, please. I'm trying to write a post on FW and failures of game design vs intention, but most of the old dev-blogs are unavailable now.

      Rob K.

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    2. Right, but you are talking about the use of a module in a narrow context, FW plexes. There is nothing wrong with WCS in general, it is FW plexes that are broken.

      We can infer from the fact that a mining frigate and a T2 transport ship have built in WCS that CCP believes their are uses for them for PvE activities. So pilots wanting to do PvE activities have safety net. It does not make them immune and comes with significant penalties.

      So, yeah FW needs a complete overhaul. Should there be a hotfix in the mean time to change WCS behavior? I don't see why. You can still blow them up, just takes more effort.

      If it were up to me I would want to see small and novice plexes restricted to militia only and WCS would have no effect in them. That would allow pure FW conflicts in those size complexes, and leave the larger ones open to free for all gangs.

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  10. "Which is weird since I've been calling for a WCS BAN for almost two years now." posted Wednesday, January 28, 2015

    "3. I never considered an actual "ban" of WCS as a module. I do believe they should only be used on transports and industrial non-combat ships, but that's me." posted Thursday, May 14, 2015


    which is it?

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    1. As I've said before, in other posts and right here in this one plus other comments above this, it is both things. Believe it or not, unlike a politician, I am allowed to have different opinions. On the one hand I believe Eve would be a better universe if we all woke up tomorrow without WCS in the game at all. We don't need them. Having said that, I also know that WILL NEVER HAPPEN. So realistically then, I have to come to other conclusions. And other opinions. Please read above for more details regarding those.

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    2. There's a difference between "I don't expect them to be banned" and "I don't want them banned". The issue I'm having is you're saying the latter, and saying "I want them banned" at the same time. I know you'd be fine with them being being banned, but i personally find it confusing when you say "I do and do not want them banned." I guess I'm just not as capable as you and can't understand wanting both sides to happen

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    3. I'd like to live in a world without guns. Personally I think that would be pretty awesome, we don't really need them anymore do we? But they still exist. And they most likely always will, so it'd be rather foolish of me to petition the government to ban all guns. However, like most people, I can see a world in which better gun controls make sense. And how that might actually accomplish something positive. And hope that a day comes when people will see the light and realize that we no longer need the damn things.

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    4. Except the analogy of this article would be closer to a person saying that guns are a great defense. In Texas you wear your holstered gun and pity the man that messes with you or yours.

      Then complain that a gun is all you need, that body armor and bullet proof vests are not necessary if you have a gun, why should anyone be allowed to use them?

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    5. Many argue that banning guns(outside of military and law enforcement) is the only way to make the change. That anything else will be too slow, drawn out, and ineffective. Once guns are illegal, there are less loop holes to justify the possession or sale of a fire arm, allowing government regulation to be much broader and availability much less.

      Granted, this will never prevent guns from existing nor from being used illegally, it will just greatly reduce their use. And in countries like the USA, gun advocates and hunters, and the like, will never let the laws get to restrictive.

      Yes you can want to live in a world without guns, and you might even hope everyone will one day feel the same way. But if you are even the slightest bit a realest, you will know it is not possible. Your best bet is in regulations that will reduce their use. But they will never go away.

      I would like to live in a Factional Warfare space without pirates. Now pirates aren't bad, they have there place in the game. I won't ask CCP to ban pirates. But they are an unwanted third party for purest FW. I hope that pirates will realize the Factional Warfare is opt in, and if a person does not opt in, ie pirates, then they will one day realize they have no place in FW complexes and they will see the light that they are not needed there.

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