I don't often talk about the internal workings of Stay Frosty and A Band Apart on the blog. As much as my critics like to bash me for blogging about everything, I typically remain silent on many topics. Which they wouldn't know about, since I'm silent on them. That being the entire point. It works surprisingly well.
I'm going to break the wall a bit on this post and talk about two specific losses that recently happened inside of Stay Frosty. These losses have sadly been replayed across the community, on Twitter, on the Mittani's site, on Reddit, and elsewhere. So they are incredibly public already. So I don't feel the need to sugar-coat anything, or protect a Corp mates pride. Instead I'd like to use them to illustrate several points about our Corporation and how we try to handle situations like this that sometimes arise.
If you are not already aware, I am referring to this Phantasm loss and the Pod, and then last night's other Phantasm loss, which was even worse. Just for a little perspective, the character is 4-8 on the killboard. Already he has lost about half of the Isk that I have lost in SEVEN YEARS of playing Eve.
Let's take a step back. From day one Stay Frosty has been Open Recuitment. You put an application in and you get accepted. That is the entire application process. If the character is extremely young, we try to talk to them and make sure they know what they are getting into. Some very young players thrive and some do not. I believe in the "sink or swim" process, either you get it and get involved, or you don't. Most do. But Stay Frosty is not for everyone and we are not trying to be a one size fits all place to play. That is not our goal.
Over the past two plus years we've seen a few bad eggs. Surprisingly few frankly, given the Open Recruitment policy, but we've had our fair share of trolls, corp thieves, spais, and whatnots. Again, not that many. A half-dozen or so over two years is not bad. In fact I suspect it isn't a rate all that different from those more strict recruitment policy Corporations.
When an incident happens we always attempt to talk to the people or person involved. I believe it is important to give them a chance to explain themselves. I don't know everyone personally and mistakes happen. Mostly they turn out to be trolls with an axe against me to grind, or an alt of someone that is strangely out to get me. One infamous person in particular usually.
I spoke to the Phantasm pilot. Others did as well. As always our pilots receive the benefit of the doubt. We have a 30 day trial for a reason. Normally our pilots in trial receive trial roles, but in this case I withheld those roles. While his explanations could be true, they also could be lies. It is always hard to tell. But, as always, the truth usually comes out eventually. Someone was nice enough to use his first loss as a post on The Mittani's site and the reasons the pilot gave there were different than those given to me.
And then it happened again. This time much worse.
What is that old saying? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. While I encourage our pilots to disregard killboard stats and encourage them to take chances, but even then sometimes things go above and beyond. This is a case like that. This has nothing to do with a stupid loss and everything to do with stupidity.
I don't know this pilot. I don't know his or her story. It could be an alt out to damage our credibility or killboard. It could be any number of things. Doesn't matter. The only thing that does matter is that they are no longer in our Corporation as of this morning.
We can close the door on another weird incident and move on.
When you leave your door open it is important to be able to close it every so often.
Comments
I've played with tons of newbros over the years and they do do stuff like this, normally not so extreme. The 2 month newbro in a battleship with mixed tank and guns is pretty common.
Add to that lots of RL money (maybe mum's credit card) and a background from WoW where people judge you almost purely on your gear then you get people like this guy.
Good for you for getting rid of him because he is both dumb and, I'd guess, thinks he's really smart.
I thought I was rather clear on that.
You can only be trolled by losses if you give a flying fuck about killboard stats. I realy dont understand eve i guess.
That said, the lying about what happened would be more of a concern.
When I lose some ridiculous fit (and I do sometimes :P) that doesn't reflect on anybody else in SKRMR, unless they suffer from some weird form of replacement/projected shame. How is what I lose in anyway relevant to what my corp mates do or don't lose? I generally have no idea what my corp mates are losing, I don't really look vOv
And if somebody decides 'this one SF pilot is an idiot so they must be a corp of idiots' you should probably encourage them thinking that, seems to me people underestimating the non idiots in corp would be a helpful thing ^_^ Consider it a sort of investment in your general engagability if you must spin it somehow :P
And why would you even want to recruit people who care about the board? It's apparently contrary to your corp culture so that recruit would most likely end up turning out toxic anyway vOv
If the person lied then sure, confront them about that and if they don't have an explanation for the lie you can live with by all means do as you see fit. But when you explicitly state you don't care about killboards then don't use it as an argument after, that's pretty flip floppy :)
Gods I am so incredibly tired of people who take the ISK war so damned seriously...
FFS people it's a game... A great game, an fantastic game an AMAZING game... but in the end it's just a game.
I will say it again, killboard had nothing, zero, nada, zilch, zip, to do with what happened.
I couldn't give a rats ass for ISK losses or wins, mine or anyone else's... I lost a Vargur once, a 1.5Bil loss... so what? My ship, my ISK, my game. And lo and behold NO ONE in my corp even suggested I get a "talking to" much less kicked... and if they had been that kinda corp and guys, I wouldn't be here.
It was all about my taking a risk, flying solo in a hole running Sleepers and I got jumped by an Eve Uni gang... I was a bit upset at first... not over the ISK, but cause I was complacent and not watching DScan and the loss (of the ship) was on me.
I ended up giving the guys who did the kill a GF and kudo's for a well done hotdrop. Then I went to Jita, bought n fitted out a copy of the one I lost and flew it back in the hole that night.
It's my ISK, my ships and my game. If you talk the talk about not caring about the ISK, then walk the walk.
You did not once mention HOW the loss occurred or why... just linked the KB stats and went on to describe how you ended up kicking him because "...sometimes things go above and beyond." Above and beyond what???
ISK that's what.
Sorry, Rixx... I'm just get real tired of the negativity in EVE sometimes is all.
Then why post the KB links? You sure didn't talk about his flying, or the engagement, or the guys who killed him, where it happened, how and or why...
You posted just the KB loss and talked about how...
"Such losses reflect back on every pilot in our corporation and our alliance, those that are working hard to achieve their own goals and work to get better at the game. In addition, it does affect our ability to recruit, or to hold events, or to organize outside the alliance."
Which is not true if you and they actually don't care about the ISK, or care about the opinions of people who do. It really is that simple. If you don't care, then this was a non event.
If you'd read the post you'd already know that this was about lies, deception and trolling, not a bit about the loss or the killboard stats. That is all it had to do with, was context. If you or I go out and lose an expensive ship, it has context. For me it has to do with the other 5,000+ ships I've exploded. Context. This young man had no context, very little Corp interaction and two big losses on his 4-8 killboard. That was only CONTEXT.
We have people in our Corp that lose expensive ships all the time, and nothing gets said. That is the difference, because they talk, they explain, they listen, they try to get better, they fly with us, they learn. If I have to explain this again I will start hitting myself with a hammer I swear to God.
Anyway, I believe that you personally don't care about the killboard as a record of anything. I have no reason to doubt that is true if you say that is the case.
But I also think you are keenly aware of how most of EVE sees killboards and that you know many others will let their perception of a corporation/alliance be influenced by killboard records.
And I'd be shocked if someone who's does what the real life Rixx does for a living wouldn't be keenly aware of the 'public perception' and how a killboard might influence that, you pretty much said so when you mention it reflects back (which I think is a fallacy/faulty logic, but the effect still occurs with people who won't think that or see that).
So I believe *you* on a personal level don't care about killboards, I don't believe for a second that Rixx the Stay Frosty CEO doesn't care about killboards when he thinks they affect his EVE organisations outward image (and you pretty much say so in your post). I also thinks that fine, unlike many EVE players I don't think caring is a dirty word.
My only point was that the post claims 'we don't care about X' and the lists a bunch of reasons related to X and because I'm a pedantic twat I then had to call you on that :P
If your post had been this person lost this & this and then he told this story to the EVE press and this story to me and turns out he or she is a cheeky lying cunt so we kicked 'm I'd never have said a word :)
I'll answer you the same way I answered Turamarth at the bottom, those things you mention - the killboard effects, the isk, the way people perceive things, the press, the Reddit comments, all of that - is called CONTEXT.
I personally lost 8 ships yesterday. My personal context makes that kind of day not unusual. Other corporation members often bring blingy ships to film videos, or live stream, or for events, that is their CONTEXT. I would be a fool to deny that context has something to do with it, obviously it always does.
This player's context was a 4-8 killboard, no communication in corp, lying to directors, not learning from past mistakes, and acting suspicously like someone who is the alt of someone else not identified. That is their CONTEXT. As an Open Recruitment corporation our context is that this sort of thing happens all the time and generates drama. Drama that we strive to not have.
In light of all of that context it was decided that, while it is fine for anyone to lose whatever the hell they want, it would be best if they did so out of our corporation.
And that decision has nothing to do with killboard efficiency or lack thereof. Period.
And I do read your posts... all of them... all the way through... usually more'n once even.
I guess if you had, as Keada said, "My only point was that the post claims 'we don't care about X' and the lists a bunch of reasons related to X and because I'm another pedantic twat I then had to call you on that :P"
However, I do wonder how a trial account got 4 billion isk. Or he has a really good... good friend or it's an alt from someone else trying to decrease the corp's KB.
We also don't even use voice comms 95% of the time. Most the things people tell you, you 'must' do in EVE to be 'successful' are nonsense. Nonsense invented by people who forgot this is a game so they don't feel as awkward about taking it so seriously. vOv