Saving Low Sec: Embracing Villainy

Based on yesterday's post I've decided to start a series of discussions to explore ways in which Low Security space can be improved, without destroying the core value that it currently has. Enhanced Low Sec.

Yesterday I threw out some quick ideas regarding rare minerals and a sort of "Sov Lite" concept. Both of those have their pros and cons, but both have complications that need to be considered. The last thing anyone wants is to turn Low Sec into Null Space for the lazy, or give us structures to grind.

So I thought I'd start this series off with perhaps the easiest idea of them all. One that requires very little work on CCP's part, since the infrastructure already exists. It conveniently fits within the current Meta and enhances the story-line in unexpected ways.

Pirate Corporations whose mean average Corp Security Status remain under -5 should be allowed to join a Pirate Faction.

Guristas, Serpentis, Angel Cartel, Blood Raiders and Sansha's Nation are all currently existing Anti-Factions that exist in New Eden. They are the Bad Guys. It would only be natural for nefarious organizations to align themselves with one or the other to fight the established Empires and their Faction War puppets.

Doing so would work in much the same way that the current FW system works, just in a villainy way. Destroying FW ships in Plex would not only continue to be a fun way to spend the afternoon, but would also earn LP. LP that could be exchanged for discounted anti-faction gear/ships/mods in the local LP store.

With me so far?

This step would go a long way towards explaining why Low Sec continues to be Low Sec, give the Faction War people a reason to hate us even more, and also give pirates that choose to participate, rewards for doing so. It would encourage activity in Low Sec without destroying the very foundations of how Low Sec is built.

And it would add meaning to that activity, beyond personal satisfaction. It impacts actual play-style very little, but adds rewards that make sense and are valuable to the participants.

It is a relatively "DUH" thought.

This week we've talked about the role that Lore plays in New Eden, this is yet another step towards integrating the back story even further into real play.

Honestly, as much as I've tried, I've yet to think of a single negative that would stop this idea from happening. I only wonder why it isn't an option already?

And no, I don't think this is "the idea" that saves Low Sec. ( We could argue that Low Sec is in need of being saved, since I like it just the way it is, but that's another post. ) But this seems to me like a no-brainer addition that takes advantage of current in-game infrastructure, requires little additional coding or content development, and that could be implemented 'as-is' for the most part.



  1. Replies
    1. I suspect CCP may be planning on moving in this direction already. The introduction of pirate noob ships earlier this year would seem to indicate this might be a direction they've at least considered. I think they should just go ahead and do it.

  2. +1, they could make the value of the LP scalable to the value of the ship killed. Closes it off to abuse.

  3. Make Incursion events make low sec temporarily safe for faction standing pilots, until the incursion ends. Fix prices on npc services to make low sec a risk versus reward production choice. Make all custom office taxes controlled by DUST (universal now) including hisec. Make scc market only Player based and shift everything npc seeded to LP store. Make LP a faction currency that can be traded on scc market. Boost low sec missions and faction stores. To mention a few that would improve low sec a lot.

    Also considering allowing Jump drives in all security, and make the standing difference a modifier to time sink, so jumping up is very slow and jumping down is fast. Thus potentially moving more combat into the system and away from the gates.

  4. Hmmm. Consider the impact of competing pirate factions. Also what happens LP and system control-wise when pirates from different corporations but the same faction blow each other up? That's rarely done in FW, but highly likely among pirate factions. Do pirates in a given pirate faction get exclusive docking rights to stations in controlled systems? How will prevent takeovers of pirate factions by nullsec alliances/coalitions in order to manipulate the pirate faction LP market or to gain a degree of control over lowsec real estate?

    1. Forgot: Does this encourage blobbing, which would be counter to the small gang paradise you desire.

  5. Love this idea!

    re: "give the Faction War people a reason to hate us even more"

    Speaking from my own personal FW point of view, it wouldn't be the same without the pirates. I've had two great days of getting blown up and the gfs were all from pirates. The Amarr (not all of them) don't seem to want to fight all that often.

  6. I've been preaching Dynamic Landscapes since 2008. Glad to see more and more players getting on board.

  7. Rixx, I love you like we were grown in the same clone vat (that's probably very unsanitary) -- but this is a poorly thought out idea. You've been tickling at the back story lately talking about the history of New Eden and you've admitted that you don't really pay much attention to it so let me suggest that you might not understand the story behind the "pirate factions" as they're called.

    The Sansha are not pirates; they are basically a cult where instead of relying on charisma to do the trick they take over your mind. What use have they for capsuleers wandering about aimlessly killing? They are already making incursions into empire space.

    Serpentis is basically a black research group that operates outside the law with their Angel Cartel guardians. They have no need to seize space as they already own great swaths of it. Again, what purpose would they have to reward random killings?

    The Blood Raiders are another cult, but what they seek is blood. Sure they hope that the Empress suffers from some degenerative condition (like death) but they don't involve themselves in taking space. The have no purpose for it.

    The Guristas are pirates, but they are traditional pirates. They raid, plunder and ransom. What use have they for the explosions of random warring faction capsuleers? Have they gained any loot? Did you offer a portion of the loot?

    I could understand the reasoning behind offering a bounty (whether isk or loyalty points) for killing pilots with a very negative standing to the pirate faction, but that seems to be unrelated to what you're trying to achieve.

    As pirates, we already have a reward -- loot. We have the greatest freedom that exists: we can target any ship we like; we are untethered.

    There are a dozens of ideas that would make low-security space "better"; we could start with rolling back faction warfare complex timers when a militia pilot warps out, cloaks or otherwise moves out of the beacon's range. I'd be okay with suggestions that neutrals could capture a faction warfare complex (thereby removing control from the faction, but not gaining it for anybody). Then we could move on to adding some security to the protection racket by offering contracts for "safe passage" that would pay out after X days where the pilot/corporation has not been killed by the pilot/corporation offering the deal. We could give a home field advantage to pirates by offering free repairs in a station where you have an office (or in a system that you claim as your home?).

    1. Parity - you should know me better than that. Of course I know these things, and I agree that making the Pirate Factions "playable" for example - would be rife with problems. But I have to disagree that they wouldn't ( or couldn't ) be aligned with like-minded anarchist groups such as dwell in low sec. Granted it would take some changes to the established lore, but not fundamental changes. An alliance of mutual consent doesn't really seem like a huge stretch to me frankly.

      The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That kind of thinking leads to strange bed-fellows.

    2. I would just hate to see New Eden turned into a black and white world where you're either a good guy or a bad guy; there's no such thing in EVE. And ultimately I think we already have reward enough in our untethered nature.

      Also, I have to disagree that being negative security status makes you any more likable to the other guys.

      But you made me think, so good enough.

      Also, your last post made me post (

  8. I like the -5 or lower standing requirement. Being a villainous pirate should carry rewards in much the same way as a positive sec status has with empire factions. I really think the seeds of a concept are here, as well as in Ripard's previously published blog post concerning a similar concept. I hope CCP are taking notes.

    1. All I am trying to do is start the conversation, or keep it going. Out of it hopefully springs enhancements that benefit everyone.

  9. What about us faction war corps who are also pirates in a SHOOT ALL THE THINGS style? Do we get to join both ;o)

    1. Nope. Gotta choose, Empire, Pirate Faction or independent. You cannot serve two masters. (Like this will ever actually happen, lol)

  10. This is a slice from my blog about 2 years ago with a similar idea I had.

    Once again low sec in classic science fiction is usually know as the fringe worlds, systems that are begin colonized and getting ready of Begin brought into the fold of the inner worlds. The inner worlds don't have the resources to patrol the fringe worlds resulting in pirates being found all over in the shipping lanes where no one can hear you scream, or take weeks to get there to save you just to find your floating hulk. this doesn't mean the inner world didn't care, and they will usually deputize some police forces and distribute them around some of the main fringe world hubs for better response time.

    As a friend of mine suggested, make it so normal none FW systems also have a faction beacon of sorts, and people can join one of two factions, concord deputes, or what ever faction is of the local pirate faction. And they have to fight over the systems, and each side gains loyalty points for the capture of a system for their faction. In addition who ever controlled the beacon would grant bonuses to the system for it such as.
    If the pirates own the system, gate guns would have a slower lockign time, and all statiosn would be kick out stations.
    If Concorde deputes controled the system, GCCs would extend to 30min, and the destruction of a ship belonging to a pilot with a lower sec status of -2 would grant a 1/4 bounty of what ever the market average of the base hull cost of the ship. so killing a 20mil hull would give 5mil split between all the people who helped kill it, or just make it so pilots killed with lower than -2 sec don'tget insurance payouts for ship loss in that system.
    Oh and faction specific vanity items available in the LP store for each faction. (like awesome techno eye patches for pirates, and like medals and stars for concord deputies.)

    lol some of this stuff is out dated but the main idea of Concord duputies vs local pirates could be fun, wild west of eve anyone?

  11. Pirates could have some kind of BlackMarket LP, For the bad guys.
    Pressing them into lore and chosing a pirate faction sounds like a band aid.
    And genuine pirate mission runners (which i am not) might not be amused at all for the competition.
    But if there were some genuine items in the BlackMarket LP store, similar to the ConcordStore, that would just generate a new string in the lore.
    I am thinking about drugs, +6 learning implants, pirate faction XL ammo (i think this is not in the pirate LP stores anymore?), maybe gnosis BPCs... something unique, you get the picture.
    BUT: You have to "join" the pirate club.
    Rules: Shooting anyone who is part of the club costs you LP.
    Shooting anyone not in the club but lower than -5 does not earn you LP
    Shooting anyone else, you get LP based on stuff killed,like in FW.
    AND: There is the anti-pirate club... :)
    reverted rules and you get Concord LP.

  12. I like the idea that as a -5 and less, getting some LP from kill positive SS people, and spend them on a black-market only available in system/station owned by some outlaws/pirate corp/faction in low or null. CCP could create a new npc outlaw entity for that and make it exclusive for -5/-10. I like the idea of an undergroundish place where your SS grant you docking right, and look at your SS history, where frequent tag user would be refuse. I like those ideas but that too theme parked, and players currently have no tools to build such a thing. I like those idea then I wake up... :( Rixx help me !

  13. Rixx love the idea!
    Imo i would have joinable factions like you said, but in joining those factions come pro's and cons obviously.
    Cons: regardless of activity as soon as you enter highsec you have a permanent suspicious timer. Unable to dock at any navy faction stations in high or low. All standing decreases are increased by 10%

    Pros: incorporate a LP store similar to what is found in FW. Incorporate a pirate mission type that requires you to destroy an isk worth of ships with a high LP pay off. Add a most active pirate corp (greatest isk efficency/ isk/hr destroyed)in lowsec systems that applies an effect similar to incursions depending on the pirate faction the corp is alligned to (ie a 10% increase to the duration on neuts for the pilots in the most active pirate corp in the system if there aligned to the sansha faction).

    Plus a few more that are just too wild to even suggest :]

  14. I really like where the idea is going, a lot. Instead of basing it purely off a corporation, why not allow it to work like FW where even a single player can join a pirate faction by having a certain reputation with the faction above a certain level? To add benefits with larger standings giving the pirate NPCs a little more worth, and giving players a "life" in the universe; so to speak. Not only that doing such would push players into the NPC null to cause even more havoc. Just a few thought to chew on.

    The reason I say this is that when starting EVE the pirate missions seem quite glamorous until you find out there isn't much benefit to them. Not only that, many non-informed players do not know what to expect from low-sec. Even I myself am seasoned in Null, but not so much in Low. I'm just pointing out features that could draw new players in.

    Aside from that, it would be nice to see the idea in the F&I forum. You'll have my vote, and you know discussion always happens on a post there.

  15. Love the idea Rixx.

    Pirate faction LP for killing law-abiding FW folk - Great!

    Some of the items that currently drop from faction NPC spawns in Null Sec could be moved to the pirate LP stores, which would increase Lowsec residents ability to live off the land, whilst not majorly nerfing null as they'd still have some factions drops, and keep their officer spawns.

  16. Thanks everyone. I'm going to let this simmer while I'm away on vacation and pick it up again when I get back.

  17. +10

    This is an awesome idea.

    Make it so, Rixx!!


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