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I bring this up because I got really good at moving things around New Eden. And it helped me learn important lessons about the game. And when I think about High Sec especially, my opinion is clouded by that experience. In ten years of playing Eve I've lost a total of two Transports in HS. That kind of record has a tendency to cloud our judgement. And I'm starting to come around when it comes to HS and what it should be.
I stopped moving my own assets a year ago. After hearing rumors that HS had changed and that it had become even more dangerous to move assets thru it, I went ahead and did it anyway. I was on my Alt, I was traveling in Super HS, along well-trod lanes, and avoiding hot spots - my usual tactics. I was being stupid and I had more than my own limit in cargo, but that is my own lack of patience at work. Long story short, I got ganked for the first time. 6.3b lost. My only other HS transport loss was an empty ship and pod to a smartbomber on gate.
Since then I've been using our JF service.
I'm starting to feel myself agreeing with those that have been saying HS is broken. War Decs are broken. Ganking mechanics are broken. The penalties do not match the rewards. And HS has rapidly become a true mess without purpose. It should make sense and it doesn't.
Look, I'm an admitted Low Sec Pirate. I've been -10 for a very long time now. My experience of HS is on a transport alt. I buy things and then run home. I recently took Rixx six jumps into HS in a Leopard to buy 14b in skill injectors. That was probably the first time he was in HS in years. Point being, I'm no expert when it comes to HS.
But I see the numbers dwindling. I hear the people saying that we need a safer place to learn the game. And I also remember what HS used to be like when I started playing Eve. It wasn't like it is today. It wasn't as chaotic.
I'm sure if I took the time to dig around in my archive I'd find posts about this, but I'm feeling lazy today. I'm starting to wonder if HS wouldn't be better if 1.0 systems were totally, 100% safe. And if the sec status drop didn't allow for increasingly less safe space until you find yourself in LS or Null. What exactly would we be losing?
More players?
It feels like it is time for CCP to take a risk and try to turn Eve on it's head. And maybe turning HS into actual Empire space is the way to start. Isn't it supposed to be safe there anyway? Isn't that why it is 1.0?
Something needs to change.
High sec is a mess.
ReplyDeleteWardecs especially, as that is the only mechanic "decent" people have that would allow them to defend themselves.
Bounties are also pretty broken.
Kill rights are broken too.
Unfortunately high sec is too apathetic to get anything done about it. And so CCP have other priorities.
It just sounds like the entire system needs a good re-think from the ground up.
DeleteEasy to say something is broken. Harder to come up with suggestions of how to fix it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lor, a lot of the hisec is broken or disjointed but it would need a comprehensive sweep, almost an all or nothing. I have seen lots of suggestions, over the years, but not a comprehensive fix
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Agreed. It has to be comprehensive. As soon as we go down the path of wardecs or ganking we generally end up with the need to look at hisec in general. We can say risk and reward all day, and the balance that must exist within EVE's overall ecosystem. I'll not hold my breath.
DeleteMike - I agree. I don't think anyone truly wants HS to function as a safe haven as that would seriously compromise the things that make Eve "real". Having said that however, it seems also clear that the current system is not functioning for most players. Systems often get more and more complicated and less effective as they age, so perhaps it is time for a fresh approach from the ground-up that addresses the long-term goal of Empire space in general.
ReplyDeleteI think anytime we say "most players" we're way off. Especially in EVE given the alt culture. I will agree that "too many players" have probably been driven away from the game over time for a lot of things associated with hisec that could probably be rectified with the developer committing to a review of it's purpose, making changes where necessary and then better managing player expectations. Wardecs and ganking are but a small piece of a much larger puzzle in how hisec integrates with EVE on a broader basis
DeleteDirk - You should probably read the newer post where I try to say pretty much exactly that.
DeleteIt is a little unfortunate that, as is all too common with Eve players, you are declaring a mechanic broken after experiencing an in-game loss. That sort of casts some doubt on your impartiality and motivations for calling for change.
ReplyDeleteI mean highsec has problems, but as was said above they are not easy to solve while maintaining the ability for player-driven stuff to still happen there. But in this case, I don't know exactly what you think isn't working correctly. You are no new player. You were hauling 6B+ ISK worth of goods unescorted and unprepared. There was a clear and obvious reason why someone might try to attack you and waylay your cargo, a situation new players in their missioning frigates and cruisers don't face. They aren't hauling multibillion ISK loads around and are rarely attacked as CCP Rise and others have noted. CONCORD works pretty well to deter any attacks on new players by making it quite unprofitable.
But highsec isn't some safe tradehub for nullsec groups and lowsec pirates to do their business in risk-free. It is another part of New Eden with different rules of engagement, and one where criminals have been allowed to operate since the servers went live. It is intended have player-driven risk, especially for those rich enough and established enough to be a profitable target who fail to take sufficient precautions (or choose not to outsource their hauling to those that will for them). In this case, everything seems to be working as intended.
I am all for CCP taking a crack at CrimeWatch 3.0, rejiggering the whole thing at once to allow highsec to support more meaningful conflict between small groups, new players, criminals, vigilantes, and visiting outsiders coming to trade. But even if they did, I have to imagine 6B+ ISK haulers would still be fair game for criminals to take a shot at under the new system.
That loss happened over a year ago. It was just an example I used to set-up the premise of the article. It wasn't a life changing event.
DeleteI also represent a large block of players that operate in HS inside my alliance and so I do have a stake in HS, and in WHs, etc. Your last paragraph seems to indicate you actually agree with me, so I'm not sure what all the other paragraphs were intended to accomplish. But I'm glad we agree.
Yes, I agree there is plenty of room for improvement in highsec. The criminal and war mechanics could be much more engaging and allow for more persistent player interaction. I hope CCP finds the time to spend making it better some day.
DeleteBut my main point is that your post reads rather strangely. You relate a story about you losing a filled-to-the-gills hauler to criminals in highsec and then go on to declare highsec not safe enough as if there was something wrong with your loss. It isn't a problem that you were outplayed and lost your ship, and any improvement or iteration on highsec mechanics will still allow that to happen.
I'm sympathetic to the idea that highsec, or parts of highsec, might need to be safer for true new players, but CCP apparently looked at this extensively and found no evidence that ganking was even commonly experienced by new players, let alone was driving them from the game. If that has changed for some reason then I am open to ideas to help players get settled in a safer way. However, I see no connection to this and the anecdote about you losing your hauler.
Maybe you didn't intend to imply the loss of your hauler was evidence that highsec is too dangerous, but if so I am at a loss at what has changed that has suddenly made the small amount of risk present in highsec a problem. Highsec has always been dangerous, maybe even more so back in the day when Eve was growing the fastest.
I guess I intended the story about the loss as simply an amusing anecdote to establish my connection to the larger premise, which is simply that I'm coming around to the idea that certain elements within HS gameplay need to be addressed.
DeleteSo much for being a LS pirate eh?
ReplyDeleteIt's fun doing it to others but not when you're the victim :D
I'm never a victim. I knew what I was doing and the risks I was taking, and I paid for it. I once moved a Gila thru the gate at N-RAEL and got hot-dropped by three Carriers. I could go on and on. I take risks all the time. That incident happened over a year ago, it was simply an example I used to set up a premise.
DeleteNot sure what is so hard to understand.
I was sure I replied to this already but I cant seem to see my reply so will shoot another off. High Sec is Broken and not that's not coming from me taking a High Sec loss, I'm a null sec player.
ReplyDeleteThe system in High Sec to put off ganking is concord the whole point ccp put it in place was to try and put players off from going around and ganking noobs or players who do not want PvP but this does not work at all, CCP did not anticipate how determined players could be when this system was first implemented, and since then as was mentioned the people who live in High Sec have not been vocal enough to get anything changed.
I have a solution although I'm not sure if its perfect, High-sec should or concord should give players boosts gaining them massive resists and essentially immunity to PVP damage in 1.0 space, and then as the sec status drops this boost should decreses down to I dunno something like +50% dropping 5% per drop in sec.
OR
Just give all of high sec this boost at a flat value and stop all high sec gank squads because lets face it there is nothing fair about 1 guy flying 40 shitty destroyers being table to take down something worth billions there is no skill involved and the longer this is permitted to go on the more its happening and this game without high sec haulers would be really bad.
I think we can all agree that we would all like to see more people in EvE, and the honest truth is that a huge proportion of people leave the game because of High Sec being so bad and new players are often making stupid mistakes like hauling all they have and then get killed being 100% wiped out, with nothing left its easy for them to just say fuck this shit and leave before they even had a chance to really get to see the amazing side of this game. and we all know that ganking in high sec and high sec war dec's are the main cause of this and yet there are still people who dont want change.
Wake up. stop cutting off your own foot and let new players get into the game and involved before you run them out of town, or I dunno maybe you just like the game having lower number of players for some stupid reason.