Unintended Consequences

 


This is a story about how one big-mouthed idiot can start a chain reaction of events that end in the destruction of a treasured annual event in Eve Online. Bear with me, this is going to be a wild ride.

Stay Frosty has historically been rather lax compared to other groups in Eve Online when it comes to recruitment. We believe in a "sink or swim" philosophy that has served us well. New players are put into a 30 day "Chiller" role and then we wait and see what happens. Some make it and some don't. I explain this because those players have no roles in our organization other than to prove they deserve to become Frostians and full-fledged Pirates. Pretty simple stuff but it works for us. The Pirate life is not an easy one.

One of these new-to-us-players was not working out. Already we had discussions about their future in the group. According to other sources he was rather profane in telling elements of GalMil that Stay Frosty owned "Sov" in Ouelletta and that the militias were not allowed to plex there. This is, of course, silly. It is however a common mistake that new members can make. Ouelletta is our home. And while we do enjoy defending our home we also encourage everyone to come and do their business there - if they can. It's content for us. Heck, we even hold the largest player-run event in all of Eve Online there. Or, at least we did. This is the unintended consequences part of the post.

The folks in Percussive Pizza Time Diplomacy didn't take kindly to his rants and decided to attack our Athanor in Ouelletta. We can argue all day about this decision, but I think in hindsight we can all admit this was not a good idea. For those of you reading this and not familiar with structure mechanics or the current state of affairs in Low Sec - a structure timer is a red flag that pops up on certain people's radar. Now that structure timers are only a 2 step process, once the shields are gone - this group can swoop in on the second timer and pop the structure without having to inconveniently wait. More on this later.

We formed up for the timer defense and luckily no one showed up. My group had their blood up however and needed something to do. You can't form up 40+ blood-thirsty Pirates and then send them home empty. So we flew two jumps over and returned the favor on one of Pizza's structures. We hoped that would be the end of it. Stay Frosty is not really interested in structure fights. The rest of this story is a mess of back and forth diplomacy, miscommunication, and mistakes. And I freely admit that several of those were made on our side as well. There is enough to go around.

All of which is fine. It happens and we worked it all out together and we no longer have any issues with the people in Pizza. Unfortunately however - this path resulted in two of our structures in Ouelletta being put into timers. Two red flags popping up on someone's radar.

The Stay Frosty ABA Annual FF4A has become the largest player run event in all of Eve Online. Back in March we held our 8th Annual version and broke all the records we had set just the year before. Every year they get bigger and bigger. The event is hosted out of an Astra named "Toothpaste Fish" in Ouelletta. We do this because of the tether and because of the extra cargo space afforded by the structure itself. Last year we had 20,000 fully fitted frigates on hand. Every hangar in Ouelletta was full. That is 3 NPC stations, an Astra, and an Athanor FULL of Frigates. Without the Astra and Athanor people can camp the NPC stations and kill frigates as they undock. This used to be a huge problem back in the early days and it kept those early FFA events much smaller than they became once tethering became possible.

As of yesterday Toothpaste Fish currently held about 13,000 fully fitted frigates in preparation for next year's event.

So yes, in order to ensure the survival of this structure I sounded the alarm on Twitter and on Discord. I knew what was going to happen. And I was right. We can argue that the egg came before the chicken or that the chicken came first, but the fact is that what happened was going to happen either way. This is the reality in Low Sec these days. The Mafia wants their protection money and if you don't pay they will remove your structure and there is literally nothing you can do about it. The red flags went up and they were noticed.

So yesterday, as expected, Snuff showed up to the Astra timer and blew up Toothpaste Fish. A structure that had been in space for six years and six FF4A events. They blew up the 13,000 frigates, which are now in asset safety without a place to put them. (For the moment at least) They did this because we are not paying them protection money. They did it without a care in the world. They did it simply because they can.

And right now, if they are reading this (which they are trust me) they are already forming the insults they will use to down-grade me and make themselves feel better about what they did. I know the type. And I also know, better than most of you reading this, that this is Eve Online. It is harsh, it is cold, and to the victor go the spoils. I am a pirate after all. And not just any old pirate either. So don't try to tell me about how harsh Eve can be. I already know. Thank you.

I'm more than familiar with bullies. I was there on the field when Snuff destroyed Space Detroit. And I've watched Tama turn into a regular old system in the aftermath of that structure being destroyed. I was there when Snuff killed the 6th Empire's Keepstar, a well-known and long-established center of peace in the universe. The Space Popes' home. So yeah, I don't need a history lesson.

Stay Frosty has a Code we live by. It's an important piece of our heritage, a heritage that goes all the way back to the very first pirates in Eve Online. We're proof that you can be cold-blooded, scum-sucking pirates and also be decent human beings. The idea that being cold, heartless, Eve Online players means you also have to be assholes is a myth. It is a left-over from another era, a misunderstanding by juveniles masquerading as adults. And there is no room for it in our culture. The continued existence of these forces is what keeps Eve from achieving its full potential. And, as we've all seen this past year, those who bully are being torn down and asked to leave.

Right now it is entirely possible that we will not rebuild the Astra in Ouelletta. We no longer need it to house our clones due to the recent NPC station changes. The only reason we kept it was because of the event. Us pirates don't need structures. It is entirely possible that we will not hold another FF4A. Right now I am undecided regarding the future of that event. I need the Astra to truly make it work, but why put up another one if some bully is just going to knock it down again. That doesn't make any sense.

So we'll see. There is a lot of time between now and next March. A lot can happen in that time.

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I want to take this moment to thank the good people in Brave, Goonswarm, Shadow Cartel, Critical Effect, Get Off My Lawn, and any others that joined us over the past few days to help defend our structures and the event. You are all appreciated.

And to the people in Pizza - remember to check the employment history of that idiot in local. And please reach out to me directly next time. I'm the easiest person to reach. We look forward to resuming normal operating conditions.

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Stay Frosty is a neutral organization. We are non-aligned with any militia, coalition, or other organized groups inside of Eve Online. We do not have blue standings with anyone outside of our Alliance and sphere of support alts. We do however support our friends when needed. Or when content is offered. We are loyal to those we consider our friends, enemies in-game are friends out-of-game. This is the way.



Comments

  1. You gloss over the point where you went and reinforced PTs structures. Since they hit you in retaliation for the jerk mouthing off, then let it go, that should have been the end of it. Had you kicked the jerk and let it be, all would be well. But you had to poke back and here you are. Right?

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    1. Reading comprehension is difficult. I understand. Perhaps an adult can help you find the passage in the above post that deals with that portion of the events?

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    2. Walk me through the thought process where a tit for tat structure reinforcement was a good strategy when you had 13,000 ships in a structure you couldn’t defend, even with a batphone? You’re right reading comprehension is hard, but so is “fuck around and find out.”

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    3. You assume that I owe you an explanation. That is an erroneous assumption. However, let me try to explain things to you and I'll use small words. Someone hits us unprovoked. We hit them back. Typically this starts the process of negotiations. In this case negotiations were already in progress, but due to some misunderstandings involving both parties, they did not conclude in time. See? Not that difficult.

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    4. Hits back when homeland can’t be defended. Neighborhood bad guys take note of all the hitting. Explosions ensue. And I’m the one with comprehension problems?

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    5. I used to enjoy your blog. But this insistence on playing the victim card when the consequences were both foreseeable and avoidable makes me question how you’ve lasted so long in eve. Don’t anchor what you can’t defend, and don’t stock it full of event-critical shit. Isn’t that basically eve rule number 1?

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    6. As much as I appreciate your readership and your Anonymous commenting, I have to wonder if you've been paying attention at all. Maybe go back and re-read the history a bit and refresh your memory. And then ask yourself, who is playing who here?

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    7. Needless to say:
      They never reached out to Snuff either.

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  2. To be clear, we only reinforced 1 structure, we had the option to hit a few but it didn't seem the right response as we generally don't hit structures. it was purely a reflex response to putting 1 of our structures into reinforced. it sadly wound up with 2 more of our structures being reinforced before cooler heads prevailed, one of which has been popped by snuff. but snuff are gonna do snuff things.
    the only part of it I'm really sad about is snuff bring overkill to every fleet fight, I wouldn't have minded losing to them just wish the fight had been more fun, when they have an endless back up of caps, smaller corps can't get a decent fight from them, but as I said, Snuff do snuff.

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    1. To be clear, you reinforced that structure and *then you tried to kill it at the armor timer,* after the timers on your own had expired as a show of good faith from PZZA.

      Should probably mention that.

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    2. We could also mention that Pizza had put two additional structures in Letta into timers. But where would that get us?

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  3. This kind of being an asshole just because nothing will push you back was one of the reasons why I never joined another Corp after the first attempts. This, and CCP not giving a fuck to defend game builders from destructive assholes.

    CCP never understood that there is no survival without hard limits to destructive behaviour. Now they're desperate trying to save the game by removing some of the destructive assholes... Just a little like with maybe removing Alpha clone ganking... But as usual it's too little, too late.

    The people driven away by assholes will never come back. And new players couldn't be arsed any less on CCP eventually culling some of the assholery...

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  4. Well, now we know why you memory-holed the first post.

    The CTA was explicitly against PZZA, not Snuffed. *That* was what woke the dragon. *That's* what Hyke and co explicitly referred to in EVE Discord. Trying to pretend that your twitter and blog posts were a CTA against Snuffed is, I guess, in the service of trying to exonerate your terrible strategic judgement.

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    1. I memory holed the first post as part of my negotiations with Pizza. That's it. The post was no longer relevant. I also deleted the Tweet, as it was also no longer relevant. The rest will be determined down the road. Should be interesting.

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  5. So, did you boot the new guy or keep him for his ability to create content? I could see it going either way.

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    1. He is no longer in Stay Frosty.

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    2. I should also mention that he wasn't a new player, he was a new member.

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    3. My comment was supposed to be a joke to lighten the tone, but it clearly missed. Sorry the situation has hit you so hard, I wish you all the best both in game and in the work you do in the blog and around the game.

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  6. Ryan-Carter and reading comprehension don't mix.

    Also I did warn you about galmil using snuffed to defend their own timers and help them (when paid).

    Sad business for all. I would have defended you for just the FFA but when several Stay Frosty were flying in REGULAR plexing fleets with galmil all summer and I asked you about it you gave me the same bs response about you being neutral.

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    1. Never happened. And if it did it was for the same reasons we might join a CalMil fleet or a MinMill fleet, to help out in specific instances. A few weeks ago someone in local asked me to help them kill a structure, I said yes. Never even bothered to ask them who they were, didn't care.
      So if you want to hang onto those ideas, then feel free. Doesn't matter to us. We fly where and when and with who we want.

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    2. Ah yes, the old "You're spies of the people who are shooting at you" argument from cal mil. Classic.

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    3. How did my name get dragged into this by the anonymous guy above? I left stay frosty at least a year ago if not more, on good terms 🤔

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  7. | So don't try to tell me about how harsh Eve can be. I already know. Thank you.

    :3

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    1. At least T'amber remembers <3

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    2. I always find it so interesting when people say... "EVE is harsh and hard."
      EVE is a game. EVE is a sandbox. EVE is code running on servers.

      PEOPLE, the players, are harsh and hard, players are Griefers and White Knights and Aholes and Saviors... "They hit us, so we hit them back, that shoulda ended it." is as childish as, "But you had to poke back and here you are."

      EVE is not harsh and hard... it's players are, it's part of the culture.
      That culture, and the onset of bittervet disease is why I won EVE years ago and moved on to a game far far richer with a playerbase that is actually overall more decent and actually helpful than any other group I have ever had the pleasure to fly with.

      Fly safe!

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  8. Publishing to the world that you're a weak target isn't going to make your next astrahus more likely to live another 6 years. Should've just kept your mouth shut.

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  9. ahoy pirates,
    who would be blaming dooms day guys for appearing in most low sec BC brawls where they evaporate both sides for spoiling everyone fun.. it is always right tool for the job (but they have some solo kills we cant deny that) https://zkillboard.com/kill/96152346/
    anyway, even as this looks like mayor failed diplomacy, i hope you pull out FFA
    (i would signed myself, but that would be another failed diplomacy incident and i am not that high in my corp to pull everyone in)
    dont fly safe!

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