Walking in Stations: Revisited

Was Walking in Stations an idea ahead of its time? Or an ill-conceived "look at the monkey" concept that died an appropriate death? Is it dead and gone, or could it be revived and restored? Will we ever get the chance to open the door to our Captain's Quarters? So many questions with so few answers.

WiS was surrounded by questions like these before Incarna was released and it most certainly was after Incarna. Many of those questions remain unanswered, unresolved and buried in development that never happened and likely will never happen. Walking in Stations, rightly or wrongly, got wrapped up in other issues at the time of the Incarna release that doomed it to the dusty shelves of half-forgotten and abandoned theme development. This cannot be denied. So we know what became of WiS, but what is it and will it ever be addressed again?

The current revisionist upswing in interest in WiS is primarily being driven by the upswing in new subscribers. New players, discovering Eve for the first time, are rightly curious when they hear about Walking in Stations. I imagine many of them are wondering what became of an idea that sounds so perfect? This curiosity is, and should be, a little uncomfortable for us older players. Frankly, we have some explaining to do.

Let's go back to my own pre-Incarna concerns over WiS. Before the proverbial crap hit the fan. My own concerns, raised here in these very pages, landed primarily in regards to the "point" of it all. Despite trailers heralding the integration of Eve and Dust, mini-games, potential store-fronts, meeting places, and other wondrous in-station activities, my fear from the beginning was potential hallways full of avatars jumping up and down screaming "penis!" all day long. The thought of which still tempers any potential enthusiasm I may have regarding opening my CQ door and walking out into a hallway.

We were never given a clear vision for what part WiS would play in the daily lives of our Capsuleers, or what (if any) point there would be for walking in a station. This vagueness did not help things when Incarna was released. Initially, some of us tried to separate WiS from the other elements of Incarna that caused such uproar, but after a few days it was impossible to keep WiS from being swallowed by the crowds.

(My initial opinion about Incarna, on the day of release, sums it up nicely, or my subsequent warnings about jumping to mass hysteria.)

New players are wondering what the fuss was all about, and some older players are having short-term memory loss. There are plenty of posts, here on Eveoganda, as well as other places about that. I don't want to spend time talking about Golden Ammo, expensive clothes, monocles, and everything else. I'm trying to stick to WiS.

And, like I said before, WiS got swept up into everything else. It happened for good reason, CCP had failed to share their vision with us. They were stung by the reaction to Incarna and have spent the last few years trying to make good on a Space-First vision of Eve. More spaceships, prettier stars, asteroids, more content, more stuff in space! This was clearly the lesson they learned from that Summer of Anger. It is, after all, what we wanted them to learn. Me, just as much as anyone.

Ok deep breath.

So is WiS dead? And, if so, should it be?

In my humble opinion yes. It is dead and it most certainly should be. There is still no compelling reason for walking in stations. If you want to walk in the Eve universe we have Dust and soon Valkyrie to sate your need to move your legs. We are, after all, left with the same problem we had from the beginning - no reason for it. Eve Online remains a game about spaceships. About space and the actions of our characters in space. There is nothing inside the station that I can do that I can't do without WiS.

Except one. I can't walk thru my door. And that darn thing continues to loom rather large in the minds of players both old and new. So can we imagine a world in which that door squeaks open one day? I can, so imagine with me for a moment.

On the other side of that door and down a small hallway is a large room, much like the one in the header image - with windows!  There players from my own Corporation and Alliance can gather, people I know and share common interests. (To keep down the instances of Goonery!) No strangers allowed. Each Alliance/Corporation has a room like this in their Home Station, or maybe in any Station(?). It serves the same purpose as the Lounge on Comms does, a meeting place, a gathering, planning, sharing and plotting place. There could be mini-games. Item sharing. Fleet comp planners. The available benefits could be rather extensive and upgradeable. But it would also serve as an additional reason for people to log-in, sate the need for WiS, show off our avatars and create additional Corp/Alliance spirit.

I could stomach one additional room. Would that take away from development of Null Sov, or the POS Mechanics, that Eve still needs? Would it open the door, both metaphorically and in reality, to additional hatred if done wrong?

I don't know the answers. CCP has come a long way since Incarna, but so have we as players. There are so many new faces, young faces, that didn't live thru the Summer of Discontent. Maybe some of their enthusiasm and optimism should be rubbing off on us older, more bitter, veterans.

Or maybe these kids should leave well enough alone.

Once, long ago, the idea of Walking in Stations was greeted with loud cheers and intense enthusiasm. It really was. Maybe, just maybe, it is time to think about it again - in a different way.

What are your thoughts?


  1. Many things caused the summer of rage. The idea of WiS was not one of them. We all wanted WiS. We'd been teased for years. Remember the well received ambulation video? Then CCP derped. All that waiting, all that excitement for a measly dim room. A feature that melted graphics cards. Then there was the NeX and its $70 dollar monocle. That was bad, then CCP herpa derped with their response and the leaked email/newsletter. By that time it was mob mentality with the players in open revolt. Didn't matter we wanted WiS, by that time everyone was so pissed off with the whole thing it was riot time. Which is a shame as Eve would be better with WiS and it would open it up to those who don't get the pod avatar thing (CCP did research and the lack of an avatar actually puts some off).

    1. Oh I remember it well, we were all knee deep in it. And most of that had nothing at all to do with the "concept" of WiS, only the execution and the surrounding issues at the time. So, as a "concept" can WiS be brought back in one form or another?

    2. Can I imagine a cooler, better, walking in stations? Totally. But as Han said, I can imagine quite a bit.

      What I can't imagine is this happening without it being a huge drain on all other areas of Eve's progress. The engine has been a dead end codebase ever since WoD got axed. WoD itself never reached the point where it had the multiplayer code you are looking for to make the new and improved WiS. What we're left with is the dead husk of a bad project that CCP barely escaped going under from mismanagement of. Do we really want to revisit those times?

      I think about it this way: if CCP put up an optional crowd funding site for WiS, say $500k, to cover the cost of new programmers to implement multiplayer rooms, artists to model them, and server capacity to host it. Would that get funded? It might, I don't know.

    3. Granted, we may have passed the point of no return. But sub-contracting development is also not outside the realm of possibility. But realistically this is something that won't be addressed seriously for another year or two at the very least.

    4. Tur sighs… sets the soap box down, and climbs up…

      People... Good People... Rixx says… “This curiosity (about WiS) is, and should be, a little uncomfortable for us older players. Frankly, we have some explaining to do.”

      Yup, we are why it was shelved…. Not CCP, explain that to the noobs… WE, the vets, are why they can’t get out of their ships and explore New Eden on foot also.

      “We were never given a clear vision for what part WiS would play in the daily lives of our Capsuleers, or what (if any) point there would be for walking in a station.”

      Wrong… it would have added new CONTENT, new places/spaces to fight and explore and more importantly, new WAYS to do that… in both PvE and PvP…

      “It happened for good reason, CCP had failed to share their vision with us.”

      I disagree… in the strongest terms. No, THIS was their visoin…Please really watch this… and let your imagination run with the possibilities… the potential... and what was lost, what WE threw away... For it was WE who broke faith with CCP and the mob followed the loudmouthed knuckle dragging FiStards who can’t see beyond the end of their wittle spasships…

      “They (CCP) were stung by the reaction to Incarna… This was clearly the lesson they learned from that Summer of Anger. It is, after all, what we wanted them to learn.”

      What CCP learned was to fear their own customers… their own playerbase… because that playerbase is fickle and many, tooo damn many, are self-righteous entitled children who, instead of backing the company that CREATED EVE… threw a temper tantrum the likes of which has never been seen before in the gaming world… Was this what we wanted them to learn? To fear us?

      CCP Seagull, 2014 CSM Summer Minutes, ‘Veteran Player Retention’ section, pg 120…
      ”I, as the executive producer, am in a risk taking mode. … We need to be bolder. We should be able to get over our trauma of Incarna. We need to own our game and be courageous with it. I think our players want that of us.”

      “It's time to get over incarna and start taking risks again, educated and calculated risks of course, but we need to make sure that we deliver solid content to veteran players.

      We have trained players to be afraid of us doing big things. It meant we put something big out that was half done and it never got touched again. Us doing something big, such as industry, means CCP is going to mess it up again and we will have to pick up the mess.

      We, internally, have become scared in a sense of making bolder changes to the game so that we know we can control the outcome. Because we do not want to be perceived as messing up again. We can predict what is going on. That predictability is boring everyone to death now. … We need to turn up the volume.?

      “… get over our trauma of Incarna”
      “We need to own our game and be courageous with it.”
      “…It's time to get over incarna and start taking risks again.”
      “We have trained players to be afraid of us doing big things.”
      “We, internally, have become scared in a sense…”

      Scared of who? Us that's who. Their customers, their playerbase… We did that… we are responsible for not supporting CCP, for screaming at them like children, armed, nasty, self indulgent children. Us and no one else… we broke faith with CCP and forced them to back away from the potential that was, IS, inherent in FPS gameplay in EVE.


    5. “There is still no compelling reason for walking in stations.” and “There is nothing inside the station that I can do that I can't do without WiS.” … Yes, today, at the moment, so far, as of now… and what’s more, you don’t WANT it… but if WiS was implemented with content, which was CCPs major fail the first time, there are a great many players who would love this type of gameplay… and you don’t have to do a thing Mr. Javix… you don’t ever need to crawl out of your slimey pod, and avert your atrophied eyes from the light of day… but dammit man, don’t get in the way of those of us who DO!!

      And I’ll give you just 2 compelling reasons…

      (1) once more, everything that the idea's in THIS simple demo video could have brought to us all…

      (2) and a whole gods damned new playerbase for EVE…

      Increased PCU, increased income for CCP, increased monies CCP can spend on ALL the playstyles EVE can support… oh, and one last thing… increased immersion in the grandest virtual verse ever invented by man…

      YOU may not like or want it Rixx, but I damn well do… and many, very many of us out here in the black, we want it too.

      I can’t help but wonder… if we did have WiS, and Rixx reined in his quaking fear of crowds of goons running around in stations acting the fool… if he tried his hand at exploring, on foot, inna Sleeper Station… just how would ol Rixx react when he ran into another player, quickly drew and at point blank range, fired his T2 “Spidey” Personal Webifier MkII… and then watched in horror as the other player shrugged off the effects of the plasma web and ran away laughing with his Sleeper Riches… all because of the T1 “Freedom” Web Core Slicers module he had fitted onto his “Indiana” class Exploration ExoArmor DropSuit…? Oh the tears!

      The why…
      On The EvE of Contention…
      On The Bone of Contention…
      On Getting Back in Contention…

      and the Dream…
      Worlds and Stations

      Tur sighs… watching the parade of players walk with by but a few listening or paying any heed at all… but he holds hope… that one day, one damn day… CCP will give us what they promised and stop listening to the naysayers and the shortsighted… and fulfill the dream that could be EVE.

      The grey haired Matarii steps down, picks up his worn, battered soap box… and walks quietly away into the crowd…

    6. *claps* Thank you Turamarth. Another good reminder of why everyone wanted this content back then and was flabbergasted and raged at what we got after 18 months...

    7. You have no idea how much I would love to see some of this happen. Even if we just took baby steps....

      How a about a VERY SMALL start? How about a mobile app?

      CCP has (at least quite recently) a mobile dev group. Put them to work on a station environment for phones/tablets that we could use while logged out of EVE. Start simple. Give us our CQ on our phones, and let us do anything we can currently do in station. Next update, add the corp offices for stations where the corp has rented them. After that? Give us a nice lounge or pub. This can be done in baby steps.

      Separating it from the main client (at first), would allow experimentation and iteration without offending the sensibilities of the "bitter vet" contingent. It would also give players a chance to interact with the EVE universe when away from the primary gaming rigs. When a reasonable amount of content has been established, and the most glaring bugs smashed, the door could be opened in the main client.

      Would Jita burn? Of course it would. But it will anyway.

      What do we have to loose?

    8. Walking in Stations crime was being the pathetic miniscule result of the 18 months debacle at the previous CSM meeting. There were some serious leaking holes in the game, and every suggestion and hope the CSM put forward was slapped back with "Not for a year and a half", "Sorry, no resources for EvE", and "No, we are working on WIS", and we got... that. It was an insult, and in the complete vacuum of any explanation or clarification from CCP we were faced with having to be heard. What was the alternative, wait 4 1/2 years for the other three CQ's? Sure, that isn't what happened, but with the complete radio silence, it was a very real fear.

    9. "What was the alternative, wait 4 1/2 years for the other three CQ's? Sure, that isn't what happened, but with the complete radio silence, it was a very real fear."

      Nope... I never said CCP did it right, I said they failed terribly because they had no content ready for WiS... Like Himar said, they had grown arrogant and lost sight of the real goal because the new avatar was (and still is) one of the best gaming has ever seen...

      But instead of placidly "...waiting 4 1/2 years for the other three CQ's..." or doing what we did, Rioting and screaming and cussing CCP up one side of the 'verse and down the other... Maybe we should have gone on a campaign of COMMUNICATION.

      Blogs, comments, forum posts,... hell spamcans anchored at EVERY station and gate demanding that CCP "Open the damn door!!!" An incessant non-stop deluge of WORDS about how they missed the mark... and for them to step up and fix it, to give us what they promised...

      "CCP the Avatars are great... but where is the content to USE them in??" over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over... hell if the Rioting had been all "CCP Open The Damn Door!!" it could have been just what we needed... but no... that's not what we did is it? Oh no...

      We threw a juvenile temper tantrum AGAINST ANY WiS at ALL!!! "FUCK the Sparkly Barbies!!!!" is all I heard over and over and ... you get it right? We did not say "Great avatars CCP, now... about that door..." did we? No, we rioted AGAINST WiS... and taught CCP to fear us... to fear our reactions... to fear us unsubbing... to be afraid of US.

      Look, no one I know ever said "wait"... I never said don't riot, or we shouldn't riot... I never said CCP did it anywhere near right... Nope, they fucked big time up all right... but then, instead of seeing the potential, and engaging CCP and asking for them to step up... no, we fucked up even harder and turned our backs on them or outright attacked them... instead of engaging with them as we do now though the CSM and blogs and forums and Dev blogs...

      We did this... not CCP... and I am ashamed of us for it.

    10. Tur for CSM.

      Seriously, someone who supports ambulation needs to get on that council if we ever hope to see it become a reality. I can't think of a better proponent.

    11. LOL... believe me, I have thought of it... if I only had support @home (wife is rabidly anti-EVE... sigh) I really would consider it...

      Thanx though for the thought... =]

    12. <3 I love your posts dude, I've been explaining ambulation to alot of hardheads myself. I wasnot part of the player demonstrations, but I allways felt like a conservative hater wibe responsible for ambulation not advancing, if not physically, then filosofically. Looking forward to Legion and to walk some more in New Eden. 3 cheers for sensible roleplay

  2. "Anger" ... and then "Discontentment"? Keep going, Rixx, and you'll eventually talk it down to the "Summer of Mild Discomfort." Revise history much? 8-P No, as Drackarn says, it was the "Summer of Rage." That's the actual history, and it was well-earned. Were it those other things, I sincerely doubt CCP would've noticed or changed course the way they did.

    Anyway. I think some good points are made vis-à-vis the fact WiS was originally well-received in concept, and was desired. The bad reaction and perhaps bad reputation it has currently really is inextricably tied to all the idiocy that occurred at the time Incarna was launched - although, if we're honest, I dare say most folk have generally left those feelings behind. (Summer of Rage and the guarded watchfulness for the CCP mentality that led to it, not so much ...)

    IF - and that's still a big "if," I make no doubt - we did not have all those attendant debacles as well (the terminal hardware glitch, Monocle-gate and the golden ammo debate and foul-up, AND - we often forget - the fact originally there was only the one stinkin' lousy CQ offered) I sincerely think WiS would have been greeted as slightly to moderately interesting feature that most everyone would've taken in stride. Nothing to see here, move on folks. And CCP would have had the opportunity to iterate on it a bit more in peace. Who knows where it would be now?

    Of course, there were still a lot of other problems - the lack of iteration and fixing small things In Space; the drain that was DUST; the drain additional to that that was WoD, and a much less humble corporate mentality than we have today - but arguably the WiS portion of the EVE property would potentially be both a better and more well-developed place.

    I won't claim this is either a good or a bad thing; really, I think it is inherently neutral ... as it should be, done right. It's not an integral feature of the game, and really should not be. (That was perhaps some of CCP's hubris coming out, to and try and sell it as such - part of the DUST mania at the time, maybe.) But you made the point, albeit passingly, that we - even the most hard-bitten pirates among us - are still in our majority highly social animals. The example of the voice-chat lobby was well-taken, and I would add to that the concept of pubchats. How many of us *haven't* spent long periods of time in-station, simply spinning our ships while we chatted with corp and alliance mates (whether on voice or in the chat window)? CCP added the ship-spinning counter for a reason, and it's certainly not because no one ever does it.

    How much more could that be enhanced by a corp/alliance WiS common room, much as you posited? Then push that out a little bit more by making common public areas available, in time. That would provide CCP the opportunity to market its additional services (NeX ... which, I hasten to print out, survived despite the Summer of Rage; enough people both want and use it, despite the history) for things people will find interesting (but staying away, as always, from golden ammo ... they have hopefully well-learned their lesson about opening THAT door)?

    And the whole issue of the influx of new players who are used to and expect this sort of feature cannot be lost, either. It probably does behoove CCP to move forward on the feature for this reason ... but keeping closely in mind as they do so that the Summer of Rage did happen once, for very good reasons - and, if they are not careful, it certainly can again.

    1. Not revising history. I was right in the middle of it and remember it all well. Just trying to step back and take a fresh look at a feature that many people wanted. And see if there is a valid place for it inside the game today, or down the road a piece.

    2. Well, it starts with words, of course.

      At any rate, as I pointed out I think you made a pretty good case for why - done right, and with the game's proper focus remaining in space - it *could* well have a place in the game.

    3. I believe it is possible to at least consider a future in which WiS is operating inside of Eve.

  3. After watching the Fanfest presentation that teased switching between EVE, Valkyrie, and DUST/Legion clones, I have to wonder if EVE's character models and interiors would need to switch to Unreal Engine 4 in order to match up with the rest of the universe. The only way I could see WiS getting worked on at this point is if EVE just tagged along with DUST/Legion/Valkyrie development.

    1. More than likely that would have to happen. I also don't believe CCP is currently thinking about WiS or developing it any further at the moment, obviously their focus is on other things right now. Rightly so.

    2. But is CCP working on these features for DUST/Legion/Valkyrie? It would make sense if they were.

    3. All I know right now is that WiS is not on the radar at CCP right now. I've heard that from many sources. But, a year or two from now? Who knows.

  4. Gotta disagree with you, Rixx. The lesson CCP learned first and foremost is "the less the players know, the less they can hurt you when you are down"; "keeping our game(s) focused" only comes in a distant second.

  5. I'd like to get WiS... in a fashion. We have EVE, we have Dust and we'll get Legion and Valkyrie. I'd like to get exploration, sneaking, hacking and whatnot included in the Legion and be able to access it with both Dust/Legion characters as well as with EVE characters. The game would have to have real meat on it. There would have to be both PvP and PvE. It would have to have industry and market access (preferably combined with EVE, but not sure we'd get that). It would have to be well rounded. Perhaps capsuleers would be able to access Legion side of game, but without the access for the suits. Extra rooms on station, lounges shops and such sound all fine to me, but those are more for relaxation, and unwinding - or for planning and preparing for the next jaunt to space, planets or derelict vessels.

    I could imagine playing my EVE character, then going through that door in the cabin, stepping to the elevator, which would serve as loading screen or sorts as the game would switch from EVE engine to the Legion's Unreal engine (or whatever would be used for this part of the game). I'd then step off to the station for a meeting. From the meeting I could return to my hangar, board my ship and fly (EVE side of course) to explore a vessel. Perhaps I would send a boarding party to the exploration site and join it myself in a boarding clone, while my ship would warp off cloaked to the waiting point (I could switch to the regular clone should I get warning about threat to the ship). Then I could explore the site, overcome whatever hazards are there (Rogue drones? Something else?) and perhaps fight other explorers for valuable items. Then I could leave the place, return to the ship and go back to station.

    Will I get that some day? Probably not. But I can hope and I know that CCP of today could deliver it while CCP of old was never capable of making such game.

  6. Not part of the Incarna Event, but I have seen the videos. That was intense. In retrospect, a WiS concept would only work, personally, if it added to gameplay. I'm not into WiS for the cosmetics. The one thing I can think of is on station combat. You know, dock, shoot at stuff, kill, die. The dying part would be interesting though, since all deaths would be outside a pod.

    -Xavi Bastanold

    1. Like Rixx, I was there...

      I was in the conga line in Jita shooting the monument... I was at the Titan riot in Luminaire (THAT was something to see!), I was in Amarr at the monument shoot there... I read the blogs, forum comments, posts... read the leaked "Fearless" (actually still have the file...), I watched the videos of The Mittani and Hilmar... read Hilmar's very negative comments and his apology letters to the playerbase... and I wrote my own posts about it... and I always felt we were in the wrong.

      I felt we should have been engaging with CCP not rioting against them... I felt that way even then, but any attempt I made to say anything was drowned out by the incredible anger and volume of those who hated the idea of avatar gameplay... they jumped on this and rode it for all it was worth... to our, IMHO, great shame.

      And if you look at my wall-o-text comment above... there are 2 links to a video of a presentation about what WiS was supposed to be... Walking in Sleeper (Guristas/Angels/whatever) Stations... FPS PvE, Exploring... fighting your way past automated defenses, deadly radiation, and toxic environments to find caches of valuable Sleeper Tech... with the ever present potential of running into other Capsuleers who have scanned down and hacked their way into the same station as you... and are also exploring... hence FPS PvP!!

      Or.. you run a locator agent and find a player you have accepted a contract on... He is in Dodixie Station, in the concourse, not his quarters... you are 2 hops out... you make the run, dock and go looking for him... luck is with you, you find him leaving a shop and follow him until you are close enough... you pull a weapon and shoot him dead right in middle of the concourse...

      Of course automated CONCORD laser turrets inside the concourse cut you down in seconds killing you too, but you were in a clean jump clone, he wasn't... You have fulfilled your contract... both of you respawn (of course) but you respawn richer and he respawns having lost his clone and implants...

      This is my dream of what EVE 'could' be... Worlds and Stations...

  7. In the discussion about WiS I always hear the 'Eve is a space game' it must be in space idea harped on. I think this idea is slightly off. Eve is a spaceship game. You even state 'Eve Online remains a game about spaceships.' but then you say 'About space and the actions of our characters in space.' Which is true, but falsely assumes that spaceships can only be admired while in one. Eve players love spaceships and Eve players love to look at spaceships. As I'm sure you've noticed, the actual gameplay of Eve doesn't exactly encourage players to take in the sights and sounds. I expect a room with a window would be extremely well received. Watching the Jita undock without the clutter of the overview, or screwing around with the camera focus would be a very cool thing especially for new players. I also think it would contribute to the sense of Eve being a living thing. Other gameplay concerns are obviously more pressing at this time, but I think an undock window should be something that Eve eventually gets. Even if it is w/o any other social features.

    Disclaimer: I'm one of those who unsubbed over the Summer of Rage, in part to my disappointment with WiS and CCP as a whole. I returned a bit before Retribution, after hearing about the ship rebalance.

  8. The pressure for WiS is always going to be there. Why? You have that awesome character creator. You have the vanity clothes that are being sold and given out. All that amounts, most of the time, to a tiny, low-res portrait. It's natural for people to want more from that aspect of the game.

    CCP seem to be pushing their tech to allow more than just the main client to have access: CREST is a big part of this, but could we see the 'launcher' develop into something more that bridges all three games with some kind of WiS offering? That's not as far-fetched an idea.

    The problem with WiS always has been making it more than just a glorified lobby, but when it boils down to it, the question isn't what WiS has the potential to be, but if it doesn't work out, what do we want to be left with? Captains Quarters just wasn't satisfactory, but I think a lobby would be- especially for an RP crowd. People want games and activities to do with WiS but even just letting people into the same space so they can admire their armour, display their expensive clothes and ship skins... I think that'd be enough.

    DUST's pre-game lobby did the trick, now just divide by Legion, multiply by Valkyrie and add EVE.

  9. The reason many people were so pissed at the type of WIS that was delivered was, in my opinion, precisely because we waited so long for an expansion and got...one room.

    I'd love for WIS to be realized, though we'd have to lose the lovely avatars we have now. Can you imagine what would happen to the server once several hundred of these avatars were on screen at the same time? We'd need a downgrade.

    Rixx's idea of a corp/alliance lobby(s) would seem to be doable. Plus, it just sounds cool. Player housing doesn't really add much to most of the games it's enabled in, but man, do people love it! I play LOTRO and SWTOR and at first I scoffed at the idea of spending any time decorating my housing, but pretty soon I found myself almost obsessing over it. It's surprisingly fun.

    I seriously doubt we'll ever realize the original WIS vision (and maybe we shouldn't), but we definitely should have something more than just our quarters.

  10. At this point, the little bits and glimmers that I've been able to get from CCP point to any avatar development growing out of Legion. I'm about 100% sure that they haven't committed to that (they haven't yet committed to Legion, AFAICT), but given their decision to fork CARBON for WoD, it seems pretty obvious that they'd want to run avatar gameplay on a different engine than the one they use for spaceships, at least for the next long while.

    EVE is about people. If you look at all the fiction written around EVE, and all the lore, it's about people. Nobody cares about the life and death of Rupture #3,593,324. It's very easily possible to extend EVE-style gameplay into avatars. Nothing that makes EVE's gameplay unique or special requires ships. However, it's hard to do avatars well. DUST/Legion punt a lot of the difficulties by making everyone a faceless lookalike, but that won't hold for long.

    Roughly 50% of gamers want to be able to identify with their in-game characters. It's why people are asking for clothes and camera poses, and why anyone still loads the CQ: even those tiny little crumbs are still important to a number of people.

    1. ^ 100% THIS

      Add in all the people who write stories, blogs, and role-play what their characters do to this and there is an obvious gaping hole in the Eve experience that all the things prior to the Summer of Rage seemed to promise to fill.

      Very few of the Chronicles that the lore writers have put out have anything to do with starships, but everything to do with characters. Like Star Trek, the vehicles we fly are simply that... Vehicles to bring the actors to the stage to perform whatever things they need to do. Whether it's an asteroid belt or a large space battle or a boardroom on a station, CCP eventually needs to fill in this gaping hole that is missing. When WiS comes back around to their attention, I sincerely hope that they do it right this time and that players flood that new space and add all the things that make Eve unique to it.

  11. As with Heretic Caldari, my main beef with Incarna was that we got one single, solitary, stinkin room and none of the other stuff that looked so awesome from the concept videos. Eighteen months we waited patiently and we got one room. AND to top it all off, there was a point where you HAD to load into it every time you logged in or docked, only later was the ability added to load into your hanger like you used to, and do now.

    I was more angry at the general mismanagement and arrogance at CCP than I was about avatars in a spaceship game.

    To me, saying EVE is about spaceships is like saying Star Wars is about spaceships. Only it isn't. It's about the people and their interactions and stories that they create within the lore that CCP has provided for us, as you well know. Those stories and interactions can only be enriched by having another medium to use, imho.

    -Baljos Arnjak

  12. Some people wanted WiS to be a different way of plating EVE.
    Some people wanted WiS to be as the spaceships gameplay.
    Some people wanted WiS to be a way to end in-station inmunity.
    Some people didn't wanted anyone to get any WiS.

    People often complained that WiS had no content. But that was not the worst issue. The issue was that it failed to allow to generate ontent for the very strange reason of being a single player instance in a multiplayer game. Just having a second avatar in the CQ as it is now, would generate content -at least for the parts involved. Also would call for the need of interaction tools, and different spaces for those tools. Players and their use fo the tools could lead CCP into buiding WiS by little steps...

    But theorizing aside, WiS is dead. CCP doesn't haves the human resoruces, nor the corporate interest, to add avatar gameplay to EVE. And IMO, unless somethign dramatic changes -dramatically- they won't last long enough to have a chance to implement WiS after all they are trying to do.

    Some people fantasyze about Legion... but Legion is (will be) a FPS. FPS have their own customer base and they will not be interested in WiS. And anyway, we know how well did when CCP shoved EVE down the throat of a poor lil' FPS.

  13. I am positive about WiS. I like the idea. It is good to mention that walking in stations is a significant part of the gameplay when it comes to immersion. But I really think that it would be best for CCP to implement it when we have other features of Avatar Gameplay already available - like boarding installations and exploring them in a dropsuit, or landing on planets for some ground action etc. In other words - when we have more things to do with our avatars, when we can interact with each-other out of pod, but still in game, when for example we can dock in a lowsec station and start a fight in the pub, or sneak trough the vents to escape the police while moving contraband stuff, or run through the lower levels of some station, trying to escape some very angry group of faction warfare activists that have suddenly appeared at our humble secret pirate meeting, well then, we would certainly need and appreciate WiS. What really matters is the adventure. This will allow us to get deeper in the EVE universe, and yes it should be implemented really well. For that we must provide feedback to our devs.

    And, yes, I would LOVE to have some corp or alliance quarters where we can meet and do all kind of stuff.

  14. I am still waiting for CCP to fulfill its promise of delivering a "comprehensive Sci-fi simulator".

    EVE is not just a "game about spaceships;" it was always intended to be so much more than that, and the potential is still there, even if short-sighted individuals cannot see it.

  15. i played Eve for some years with intervals but every time i was coming back... Until WiS was put on shelves, i then left for good. Still checking google now and then like now with the tiny hope i will see it planned again.

    I believe Eve will come back to it someday. It just might be too late. Check the competition and the games currently developped featuring both space and planet landing... like "No Man's Sky" : in an infinite universe with new solar systems constantly generated to explore, infinity of planets populated by unknown fauna and flora to discover... Still in development, graphics still need refinement but check it. I start seeing it as the possible Eve i once dreamed.

  16. I want walking in stations now! If not i will remain unsubbed.

  17. Well I played eve online from alpha beta.

    Done everything ingame!!

    WiS was promised walk in hangar ability to setup your own shop set up your own nightclub.

    And more ....

    Some try to dribble alot of people quit eve due to WiS

    NO we quit due to ccp scrapped WiS.

    Sidenote I did have 8000 contacts ingame
    No one is online anymore mostly miners traders

    We got assfucked by ccp

    Lets those pvp ass have the sinking ship eve is now.

    I have pledge over 800 000 $ to Star Citizen. Got some pals doing the same.

    Ccp didnt listen to us but let them have eve online we made sure we get agame without griefers.

    1. Agreed 150% starcitizen will wreck eve and those pvp who could get the bigger picture, now is too late starcitizen is comming. Together and is getting bigger and bigger.i just saw footage of planet landing and first person shooting on starcitizen it looks awesome. Maybe what eve tried to do was ahead of its time, or maybe they teased their player base too early. Who knows. I know for fact that I won't be a capsuleer I wanna be a fucking starcitizen


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